Introduction

[KernT-FL-509]

Hi

My Name is Kern, I am 38 years old and just became a US permanent resident. Apologies in advance if this goes on a bit...

The past 15 years I worked as a market risk analyst in London. I got the flying bug when invited into the cockpit of a Royal Air Force VC10 en route from Akrotiri (Cyprus) to Brize Norton (UK) in 1979, but shortly thereafter my eyesight started to deteriorate and when it finally stabilized at about age 30 I was -5.25 in one eye and -5.5 in the other, way outside the CAA's permissible range at the time. Fast forward to January last year, I discovered that the rules had changed so I went to the CAA aeromedical center at Gatwick and my eyes checked out fine, but I was still close to the limit. I decided to have wavefront LASIK, which was done at Bascom Palmer in Miami and I am now 20/15 in each eye and stable (touch wood!).

Last summer I managed to persuade the CFO of my bank in London to pay me off, I put my house on the market and started looking at JAA schools. By the end of last year I had sold the house and chose WAAC in Perth, Australia. I was due to start there about 3 weeks ago, but by chance I ran into an old friend in March who is a widebody driver at a major UK airline and he basically said anyone handing over (the equivalent of) $100-$140k to any JAA "integrated" school in the next 2-3 years is throwing their money away because the capacity reduction (in Europe at least) is likely to be with us for a decade or more. Having an "insider's" perspecitve on the banking industry - knowing that all the banks are using BS valuation models to hide losses that are far bigger than have been publicly admitted and that the credit tap will never be opened so wide again, I was inclined to agree, so I pulled out

Having been in Florida now for a month and finally sorted out my green card, drivers license, bought a car etc. its time to work out what I do next, and of course what I really want to do hasn't changed, but I'm skeptical that flight training here is worth the capital outlay when there are reputedly thousands of furloughed drivers out there and the fact that the US has a huge pool of military trained pilots with thousands of hours to compete for jobs with (which is not the case in Europe). Financially, I can do it, I don't need finance for training and I'm fortunate to be in a position where I have zero debt, but I worked long and hard to get there so its a tough call.

I know the JAA schools are very bullish about the medium term hiring prospects but the cynic in me says they are blowing smoke out of their collective derriere and they have to hype it up to stay in business. I know for a fact that they have empty/cancelled/merged classes because UK banks will not lend for flight training any more - that fact almost persuaded me to go to WAAC because there will be less low hours pilots down the line.

So, I guess my specific questions for now are:

1. are enrollment numbers at US flight schools being constricted by the availability of finance?
2. how big is the pool of pilots that will inevitably have to be re-absorbed into the industry before hiring of low-hours pilots begins again, and how long do you think that will take?
3. What is your opinion of pay-to-fly deals like Gulfstream, AirAsia, Air Maroc etc? To me it seems to be a much better way of getting relevant hours than GA instructing but judging by the posts on PPRUNE, most pilots seem to hate it.
4. how come FAA schools can take you from zero to CPL/ME/IR in 8-9 months when JAA schools make you do 9 months ground school before you ever get in a cockpit?
5. typical profile for a JAA integrated school instructor is ex-military and/or ex-airline and tens of thousands of hours. JAA schools I have spoken to tell me that at nearly all FAA schools, this year's instructors are last year's students doing hours building, the implication being that regardless of the fact that they are certified, they dont have enough experience, and that this is why FAA schools are so much cheaper. Is this true at ATP?

Thanks and apologies again for being so long winded

Kern

[SkyWest JJ]

Hi Kern--

Welcome to the forums. Thanks for the good introduction, and I will attempt to answer your questions as best I can. I am not too familiar with the JAA programs--although a friend of mine from London (I lived there 6 years ago) finished one of the programs in New Zealand and now flies 737s for British Airways.

1. I am now an airline pilot and have been away from the flight schools for almost 3 years now--so this is just coming from me--but I expect enrollment numbers are down. Financing might cost a little more now--but I think the schools have tried their hardest to provide availability of financing for those who need it. Regional airlines are taking a breather from their torrid hiring of a few years ago--so I suspect many people are waiting due to that. However, once the airlines start hiring again it will take those people sitting on the fence some time to gain the qualifications to be hired and in the meantime they will miss some of the benefits of moving up quickly in seniority (better bases, equipment, holidays off, furlough protection)--by being at the front of the next wave

2. I don't know how many pilots are on furlough at this time. Typically a furloughed pilot waits to go back to their prior carrier to bring their longevity with them. So--airlines that have furloughed may not hire for some time until they reactivate their furloughees. However there are many airlines that will be hiring when the economy and industry recover. The things working in your favor are there are many Vietnam-era pilots who are reaching the mandatory retirement age of 65 in the next few years which will create many pilot vacancies.

3. ATP has a partnership with Gulfstream--see here for details:
http://www.atpflightschool.com/airli...ge_degree.html
I don't know much about them. I have not flown with anyone that I know went there, so I don't really have an inside scoop. I know much of what I read about other airlines online can be grossly exaggerated or inaccurate (of course sometimes it's true, haha). Also--I have found with aviation there is a sense amongst lots of pilots that if you did not do it my way--then your way was not as good. You hear that from military pilots, from accelerated academy students, from Embry Riddle grads, from guys who earned their ratings at a local FBO, guys who flew night cargo in a duct-taped together plane, etc. There are a lot of ways to become an airline pilot, and most people think their way was and is best.

4. The training and certification requirements are different between the US and abroad. I think in Europe you are earning an Airline Transport Pilot certificate to start with. In the US, you are typically hired with a commercial pilot certificate and then when you upgrade to captain years later at your airline you will earn your ATP certificate. Because there is not even close to the same level of general aviation flying in Europe--opportunities for flight school grads there are with the airlines. In the US--there are many commercial opportunities such as flight instructing, traffic watch, freight flying, banner towing, etc. So you build up your experience in actual commercial flying. Schools in the US are following the regulations set forth by the FAA and everyone is trained to the same standard. Many European pilots come to be trained in the US--but I don't think that happens too much in the other direction.

5. Most of the instructors at ATP have recently graduated the program. But not all. The ultimate phase of the career pilot program is the CFI Academy. The instructor for that is Frank and he is amazing. He is ex-military, has been instructing for 20 years, and knows more about just about every aviation topic than anyone I know, owns his own airplane, etc. You will go through a bootcamp with him and learn from his experience.

The other instructors are typically recent graduates but the positives far outweigh the negatives in my opinion. These CFIs have just completed the same accelerated course you are taking (styled after military training). They are carefully selected and typically young and very motivated. They might fly 100 hours a month instructing so are very proficient in flying the Piper Seminole. And the advantage for you is that it provides a golden opportunity for you when you finish the program as you will have the chance to become one and log multi-engine instructing time which will set you far away from the average applicant at the regional airlines. Instructing has done more to make me a better pilot than anything. You can ace all the tests--but until you start teaching you don't really lock down the knowledge.


I hope these answers helped a bit--please let me know any of your follow-up questions.

JJ

[SkyWest JJ]

Kern--

Check out the video in this post if you haven't already--it might give you some more insight as to the state of the industry.

Industry Update Video--check it out

[KernT-FL-509]

Thanks for the reply JJ. Right now I'm wondering whether to do "accelerated" full time flight training or do weekends in parallel with work. Its a delicate balance - my age says "get on with it" but I seriously doubt there is much point in being a 500 hour CPL before Q4 2010 or early 2011. I'm looking at ATP and FIT's program - ATP suits me because I can do it at FLL, 10 miles up the road, and live at home when not on XC sorties. Similarly, doing ATP + Gulfstream would suit me for exactly the same reason - I live between their bases at FLL and MIA.

[SkyWest JJ]

This career is a lot about timing. But it's also impossible to predict what will happen in 6 months, let alone a year out. My advice is get yourself in position so that when the opportunity strikes you are ready. Of course if you can earn your ratings while you are still making money from work--that is a good thing. It might only push you back a few months--but will definitely help your financial position. However--some of my students who worked full time and attended ATP on weekends suffered from so many conflicting demands. It was harder for them to gain proficiency and stay proficient. Keep that in mind, also.

Let me know any other concerns you have.

JJ