Introduction

[ReynaM-WA-509]

Hi, I'm Reyna. I have about 480 hours and my ASEL private pilot's license. I've been flying since 2006. I have passed the written exams for both my commercial and IFR ratings but have stalled out a bit because of the weather in the Pacific NorthWet (aka icing potential) and CFII availability.

I've suddenly found myself in a unique position where I have the time, desire and funds to become an MEI commercial pilot, possibly with a Lear jet type rating and the instructor ratings to go along with it.

Looking foward to getting to know your history and whether ATP is the right system to help me achieve my goals.

Thanks,

Reyna

[ExpressJet Roger]

Reyna, Nice to meet you. I would say you are well on your way to getting to your goal. As far as getting the multi-engine time and all the rest of your certificates in a very short period of time, I would have to say yes ATP will be the place. However, to get the Lear Jet type your going to have to go to someone that has that sim and is certified to give those types. Be careful they are very expensive. I would hold off on getting the type until either you have the job or best situation is wait until the guys that give you the job pays for the type. Well hope I helped. Maybe if you spelled out your plan, I might be able to help you avoid some pit falls that I found (the hard way). Well it is great to meet you. Look forward to hearing from you some more.

[ReynaM-WA-509]

Hi Roger,

My current CFII is an ATP grad (Nick Rosenbladt), and he is answering a lot of questions for me about the program. The big obstacle for me, now that the wx has improved in this area, is getting ME time & instruction, as the local flight schools insist that I hire their instructors, which means hopping around between instructors, fields, and even aircraft... but enough of why ATP may be the solution for me.

I have a friend & mentor (he'd laugh his head off at that term) who flies Lears for local private individuals. Although it would be a stretch to get the owners to pay for my type rating, I do have a very good chance of getting SIC time as soon as I am qualified. He even gave me a copy of the POH for the Lear35 , and, since he is a CFII/MEI, I have logged instruction time with him in a Cessna 340. He also gave me my first ride in a Lear and I'm very, very hooked. It's somewhat more exciting than a 152.

What I'd like to do is get my FAA ratings/licenses lined up so that I can pursue opportunities flying for private individuals flying SIC and later PIC... and maybe one of the charter services like NetJets.

I am trying to determine which ATP location would be the best one for me; my CFII suggests Jacksonville, where he attended, as it is ATP's home base, but I would like to stay in the West, maybe Phoenix or San Diego, and start in the fall (September) when the weather is better down there. I'm also curious about the access to maintenance facilities (on the field is always better), the number of Seminoles available to students, the number of students per plane, the number of instructors and SIMs per student, etc, at each location. I can't find this information easily online.

And, I'd like to bring... and hangar... my Cardinal, if possible, for the duration of the 90 day program.

Another question... as I've already passed my Comm and IFR writtens, I could probably pass my Commerical practical in the next couple of weeks, with some regular flying practice. That would enable me to fly fire patrol locally in a cessna 152 for about 4 to 5 hours a week. Would additional single-engine logged time help me get a job, or at some point is additional c-152 time just moot? (I am currently 0.2 hours short of 500 total logged time, with nearly all of it in single-engine planes).

And, a final question... since I have nearly 500 hours, plus my IFR and Commercial writtens done (92% and 95%), and can possibly have my SE Commercial done by the time I start ATP, is there any possibility of a slightly customized program for me, perhaps so I can get a bit more ME time in lieu of having to study for and pass those exams?

You mentioned you had some learnings too - feel free to share those!! I would certainly tell anyone starting out to go study ALOT prior to paying for time to sit in a plane with an instructor... I figure I could have halved the cost of my private pilot's license if I'd studied for and passed my written exam prior to doing the majority of my flying.

Talk to you soon, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

Reyna

[ExpressJet Roger]

Sorry for the delay, weather though out the country has thrown my schedule in total disarray. I just got back from my four day trip that was suppose to end last night and need to get everything ready for a trip they assigned me that starts tomorrow. I promise I will bring my computer sit down and give your post all the attention you deserve. Hope you understand. I really am sorry. Talk to you tomorrow.

[ExpressJet Roger]

Reyna,

Well sorry about the last couple of days, it seems that Newark has been abusing the 1, 2, 3 rule (1 plane, 2 clouds, 3 hour delays). Once these delays start, it just pushes everything back for days.

Good call with the plan to finish all your certificates prior to getting paid to do what we love best. From what I have been told by several friends of mine that work the corporate side of the industry, working for someone as a ride along is a great way to get your foot in the door. Just be careful about what you log. I’m not sure how NetJets view it, but ExpressJet and all the other airlines are really supper critical about logging that SIC time in an aircraft that doesn’t require an SIC by a person without an SIC certificate in that aircraft. What I think would be a great plan would be for you to sit in that right seat (most owners will pay you to sit there a couple hundred a day for insurance purposes), get the experience and they get to know you and I am sure they will like what they get to know. It is then that you ask them to pay for that ATP type certificate.

This brings me to the question you had about the future opportunity to work as a fire patrol. This is a difficult question but not because of why you might think it is a difficult question but because the answer is going to be rather long. Ok here goes my best to shorten down my novel. Your correct that it does come to a point when getting more single engine time is worthless if that is all we’re logging (however you are about 5000 hours from that ever happening), but you’re also logging a lot of other really important things when you log every single hour. Don’t forget about the PIC, night, solo time that I am sure you will get and if you’re as inventive as I think you are you’re going to bring a friend up with you on occasion and have them be your safety pilot so that you can shoot some approaches on your way back from a patrol. You should remember that NetJet is going to want you to have 1000s of hours of flight time, and while multi-engine jet time is the ideal they are sure not going to discount any earned flight time. Just don’t let yourself get sloppy during this time. What companies don’t want to see are signs of laziness, unfortunately it always happens to the poor single engine guys and in my opinion that is why they get the bad wrap. Keep sharp, professional, and you will be fine.

So let’s talk about where to go (ATP locations that is). I got all my ratings up to commercial at the Riverside location, and then went to Vegas for my CFIs. After getting hired by ATP, I started teaching in Sacramento but quickly went back to Vegas so that I could build my time faster. I remember meeting all the guys from Jacksonville and they would try to point out how much better their location is than anywhere else. Here is the real deal, ATP goes to great lengths to ensure that all the locations are training students the same way and up hold the same standards. As far as the equipment goes, ATP has several maintenance bases though out the country and ensures that all the equipment is well maintained. The things that I advise the students to do when they are looking for a location, is to find a place just far enough away from their family and friends that you dedicate your time to studying. Then comes the weather. The weather is better out in the South West but you get real IFR training on the East coast and North West. If I had were able I would choose to training would be on the East coast during the winter and the west coast during the summer, but then I like warm weather. If I wanted to challenge myself I would probably do just the opposite. The winds on the West are stronger during the winter making a great learning lesion for mountain waives. While the cloud cover on the East makes learning IFR a challenge, and the North West is always cloudy and rainy. One thing that I would say that really impressed me when I started ATP was the student housing. Of course, I lived in a tent with 40 other soldiers prior to this and any improvement from that, well you know. But seriously, the apartments are three bed room two bath apartments. There is always plenty of parking (if I remember correctly), and they all had weight rooms and pools. You know the standard apartment complex thought out the country. Unfortunately some take more abuse than others. Some people were never brought up to take care of other people’s property. When this happens, ATP pays cleaners to come in and take care of it. This is all done to ensure that you have the best conditions to learn.

As far as what to bring, I would not bring my own plane. You will get plenty of flying time. ATP is most likely not like the place you’re training now. You will have about seven days from the day you start to get your Multi-Engine Private Pilot certificate. This means that when you’re not in the plane, you’re pretending you are by sitting in a chair looking at a poster flying the plane in your mind. This will be a 24 hour commitment training environment. I would bring my car, bed spreads/blankets, a sleeping bag that I would take on my cross country flights (you will find that not everything goes as planned), a lap top, and of course clothes and personal hygiene stuff. The apartments all have full kitchens to include utensils.

Now I can’t say for sure about all the cost side of this, you will need to ask the guys at the corporate office, so please ask them. However, I know that they are going to repay you for the tests that you have already taken. That is why I advise everyone I talk to that they should go ahead and take all their written tests. But since you really don’t pay for instructing time at ATP, they will probably just offer you the flight time which if I were you I would take because it would all be PIC time and plus you will most likely be able to make it all IFR. This way you get more for your money than just buying instructing flight time.

Well hope this helps. Please don’t hesitate to let me know if I left anything out or need to explain anything else better. Plus I am always here if you just want to say hi and let me know how your flying experience is going. Talk soon.

Roger

[ReynaM-WA-509]

Hi Roger,

Don't worry about the delays in getting back to me... I have several pilot friends and I'm very patient when it comes to email responses. I always remember that not everyone has ... or, in my case, had ... a computer desk job.

I really appreciate your insights: I wouldn't have thought of taking my sleeping bag, although of course I always have food/tent/bag/fishing pole in the Cardinal when I do cross country flights!

I'm looking at Flight Safety, AriBenAviator, Flights Inc, and ATP and gathering information wherever I can, including the online pilot forums. The local FBO option is off the list: my family and friends convinced me that I need to go somewhere remote and into an intensive study environment because distractions at home are too readily available.

What is your take on visiting the schools in person? Is the marketing push during a brief visit so different from reality that it's a waste of the lots of dollars and lots of time that visits would cost? Or, is it possible to really meet the instructors, managers, and maintenance personnel and have those meetings be a factor in making a final decision about where to go? On the one hand I'm thinking "go, deal, get done" and on the other hand it would be extra nice to be around a person or people who I know are genuinely interested in seeing me succeed, and my years in the corporate world have taught me that it's the people you work with that can make all the difference.

Where are the maintenance facilities for ATP? Is there one on each field, or only certain locations?

Gotta go study for that Commercial oral test. Would prefer to fly and practice maneuvers, but, well, I'm in the Pacific Northwet and we've got 1200' ceilings today. Again. In middle of summer.

Talk to you later,

Reyna

[AzizA-VA-609]

hi how are you?

[ExpressJet Roger]

Reyna,

I learned about the sleeping bag the hard way. I had a flight from Vegas to Riverside when the weather started turning really bad, worse than it was supposed to get (so the forecast reported). About half way to Riverside, icing forced us to land at a little nothing town in the middle of the desert. 15 hours later we departed. Trust me when I tell you it was a cold and miserable night.

I would definitely take that visit to a school I was thinking about attending. You would do it for a major university why not a major career educational facility? You will most likely be spending more money at the flight school then most people do getting their under graduate degree. Now don’t expect to meet everyone on your list, however you should expect to talk to a few of the instructors and see the aircraft. I would even want to climb into the aircraft and if they have housing, go and see what they housing looks like as well.

As far as where ATP’s Maintenance facilities are located, I believe they still use Riverside CA, Arlington TX, and Jacksonville FL. That doesn’t mean that the aircrafts located at other facilities are in any worse conditions than the ones located at a maintenance facility. Aircraft are constantly being moved from location to location based on need and maintenance scheduling.

Well, get back to studying and I will talk to you more soon.

Roger

[ReynaM-WA-509]

Hey Roger,

Well, I visited, as you suggested, loved the location (Phoenix), loved the fact they have on-site maintenance, and I signed up. I'm here at Gateway now and just took my first training flight (after the intro flight I took last month). Pretty amazing!! Sort of like a fire hose of information, isn't it? Thanks for advice not to bring my plane: would have been better not to bring my bicycle either... it's definitely a full time job, times two, to stay up with the training. I should've just brought MREs (meals ready to eat...!!!).

Thanks also for the advice to take the writtens: I got 3 out of the 5 done, I just don't know how I would've found time to study for the instrument written if I didn't already have it done!

Wish me luck on my ME checkride... that's in less than a week now that I've been here 4 days.

And, thanks for the advice!!

Reyna

[ExpressJet Roger]

Reyna,

I know that you feel like you are already struggling just to keep your head above the water but I am now going to ask you to do something else for me that will pay you twice what you will put into it. Every night before you go to sleep I want you to sit in a chair facing a wall, ideally looking at a poster of the aircraft dash. Then I want you to fly the profile (this is the sequence of events from start to finish the check airman will have you do for your check ride). Just ask your instructor what I’m talking about. I want you to do this twice a night. Oh, might be a good idea to read the AIM part of the FAR/AIM as well. Maybe just a chapter a night, but you really will benefit if you do this.

Well, keep me informed as to your progress. I’m really glad you enjoy the program. You picked a beautiful place to train. So good luck on that check ride, you will do fine.

Roger