introduction

[KarlN-TX-1208]

Hi Adam,

I am a 46 year old business owner who just can't get my head out of the clouds. I flew back in my college days, got distracted with my family and business, and here I am, unable to sleep because all I can think of is flying for a living. I can start school at any time, but I want to know your input on the airlines hiring a new grad at 47 years old.

I just received my 1st class physical, and I am in great shape.

Looking forward to hearing from you and I have many more questions.

Have a great day!



Karl

[ExpressJet Adam]

Hey Karl,

Great shape huh? I'm 45 and I THOUGHT I was in great shape till I today. Got my kids a new trampoline for Christmas and figured I'd give it a try, I was on it for about 15 mins, almost called 911, but enough about me.

So you're ready to live the dream, fantastic and you've come to the right place. Without question ATP can get you to the right seat of a Regional jet faster than anyone in the industry. 47 ain't old but let's face it, we ain't getting younger either so time is a factor. Will the ailrines hire you? Definitely, but (as I've often said) you need to be realistic about your goals.

The FAA changed the rules last year so you can now fly to 65, so you've got 17-18 good years left in you (not bad). What you've got in your favor is major things: first, second career guys (ie. older guys, no disrespect to the kids out there) are generally more focused and have a better work ethic. You've been out there, busted your butt, and this is something you really want and your going to work hard to do a great job. Second, you're probably a better investment. On the average it costs a Regional about $15-20K to train a new hire. Joe TwentyFourYearOld is going to jump ship faster than you can say Boeing. He has dreams of Tripple 7's crossing the Artic circle dancing in his head (not that we don't) and he'll be gone ASAP, He'll take a paycut, and a drastic reduction in quality of life, what ever it takes to make that dream a reality. The older newhire is probably much happier because he finally has a job he loves. And once he's made Capt, has a good schedule, and is making decent money, there's a much better chance he'll stick around a while, maybe for the rest of his career. Obviously a better return on those training costs, 17 yrs vs. 4 or 5. Cool?

So that's the deal, ATP just lowered it's prices, which is also very cool. Happy to answer whatever else you got. Fire away. Happy New Year.

Adam

[KarlN-TX-1208]

Hi Adam,
Trampolines will take it out of you in a hurry. Now if you get a black eye.... that's a problem, Ha ha.
Does the location of the ATP course make any difference in the hiring of pilots by the regionals? I'm looking at Dallas, because it's close, but I'd rather fly in the western states, Alaska Air, Horizon, etc.
How much importance is placed on Accreditation of the training facility?
Where did you get your training? And lastly,(for today), does an ATP certificate increase your first few years earning potential?

Thanks,



Karl

[ExpressJet Adam]

Hey Karl,

Yea, passengers are kinda funny about seeing their pilots with black eyes, broken arms, stuff like that so I generally try and avoid things like trampolines and bar fights if I can, lol.

The word my friend is STANDARDIZATION. All ATP's instructors, before they are sent out to their locations, are required to go to JAX (the "mothership") for Standardization Training. This way no matter what location you chose, you'll receive the same level of training. When you complete you're training with ATP, you'll have ATP's recommendation behind you regardless of which location you attended. Honestly most people put far to much thought into which location they attend. The airlines couldn't care less so it's really your call. If you want to be closer to home, Dallas or Houston are there, if you like to see the west coast there's Long Beach and Sacramento, Florida has great weather, it's really your call. I did my training in Virginia (that was the closest 90 Day ATP location to NY) and then instructed out of Trenton NJ (again, close to home). Also keep in mind when you do the cross-country phase of your training, ATP will literally have you flying from base to base across the country. So as I said, figure out what's important to you and base your decision on that.

What really matters to the airlines is who YOU are and that you have the qualifications. Next, they want a flight school with a solid reputation. ATP currently has "letters of agreement" with virtually every Regional airline in this country. Regionals love ATP grads. That's not a pitch, that's a fact. If you've completed your training at ATP, you've demonstrated that you are capable of completing an "airline" style training program. That's why ATP has an accelerated program that requires an individual to be very self motivated.

Something that does take some getting used to is the airline industry is completely seniority based. What that means is that there is nothing that's going to increase you earning potential other than time. An ATP certificate might help you get hired, but it won't help your paycheck. When you get hired at a Regional, you could be a 500hr ATP grad and I could be Chuck Yeager or a retired Blue Angel, we are both getting the same salary. You simply have to work your way through the ranks.

Adam

[KarlN-TX-1208]

Hi Adam,
Maybe you could get a book deal with all of the writing that you get to do, just answering questions from us "newbies".

What is a typical work schedule look like for you? I've heard that you "bid" on routes as they come available. Is that something that happens later in the career, or what?

How many interviews/offers did you have before you accepted your position? Did it just happen to fit your geographical location, or were you just so damn excited to fly that you took something close.

What was the most difficult part of your training at ATP? What did you like most?

Thanks again for all of your insight, and time spent responding to all of my questions. Have an awesome day!


Karl

[ExpressJet Adam]

Ya think so Karl? Would you buy one? Maybe my next career?

There really isn't anything "typical" when it comes to schedules. At ExpressJet (and most Regionals) we have 1,2,3 and 4 day trips. You could literally be home every night if you like. You could spend the day flying back and forth from EWR-BOS, or start in EWR and end up in Mexico or the West Coast. As you said you will bid for you "lines" (a line is basically your schedule for the month). When you first start you'll be on reserve. Reserve means you can bid for certain days off but you can't pick your trips. You're on "reserve" and the airline can (and will) send you where and when THEY need you. This is really where the whole seniority thing comes into play. The more seniority you gain, the better chance you have of getting the line (schedule) you want. At the beginning you'll be working weekends, holidays and basically the trips that no one else wants. Think Christmas in Erie PA (not that there's anything wrong with Erie), with the Capt no one likes to fly with. When I was a Capt I was very junior and was on reserve the entire time. I'm now a very senior First Officer and I can pretty much get any line I want (still rather be a reserve Capt, but my quality of life is definitely better).

I was actually pretty lucky. I knew I wanted to fly for ExpressJet (Continental Express) from the beginning. They had a EWR base which is 30 min from my house, they had a great reputation and they had a great contract. They were the first an only airline I applied to and I was offered a position after my first interview. NOW (here comes the commercial), alot of that had to do with the fact I trained and instructed with ATP. ATP told me when I had 500hrs total to let them know and THEY would submit my application along with a letter of recommendation. They did and I had an interview 2 weeks later. As I said, the airlines like ATP grads.

The most difficult part of my training? That's a great question. I think it was just the initial getting back into "school" mode. I mean I was 39 and had been out of school for quite a few years. But after the first week I settled in.

Favorite part, easy question, the cross-country phase. After you get your Instrument rating you'll need to build time for your Commercial license. The fine folks at ATP will pair you up with some other fool and send you flying. They try and get you into the whole airline pilot mode so you'll go to the airport, meet up with your fellow pilot, call dispatch and they'll give you your instructions. Karl, you and Adam are taking aircraft 123AP from JAX to ATL, check the weather, file a flight plan, and give me a call before you lauch. You'll do all that, they'll say cool, give me a call when you get to ATL and you'll go fly. When you get to ATL they'll say ok, it's still early, keep going to Houston. When you get to Houston they'll say ok, you're staying at the Holiday (or the student housing), get some sleep, be back at the airport and give us a call at 8am. And that's what you'll do for about 2 weeks, flying anywhere and everywhere. You'll fly over mountains, through weather, pick up ice, fly day and night. It is an incredible confidence builder and something no other flight school does. Very cool.

Great questions Karl, keep them coming,

Adam

[KarlN-TX-1208]

Hi Adam,

How's the flying?

Wow, the cross country sounds like a blast, how about four more weeks of that?

I've almost got everything closed out with my business and am ready to jump ship and head to school. I am going to visit one more school and will make my decision by Wednesday next week. They do not allow their pilots to experience a cross-country as cool as you described, bummer for them.

When Express Jet interviewed you, what was it like? Was it only an office interview, or did they want to see your abilities in the air?

How does ATP facilitate the interview?

How many of your classmates were hired? I know that ATP teaches on a two to one ratio, but I'm sure you kept in contact with some of your other classmates...?

Before I visit my last school, do you have any additional advice to me, besides to get my butt in the air a.s.a.p.?


Karl

[ExpressJet Adam]

Hey Karl,

Flying is going well (as I always say, I love my job). Actually in Baltimore tonight and was scheduled to have a full day of flying tomorrow (BWI-CLE-MCI-EWR), BUT, there's bad weather coming into EWR tomorrow so they've pre-cancelled the MCI part so it's just BWI-CLE, then deadhead (sit in the back with the civilians) to EWR. Good part is per the contract, we get paid for the whole trip (gotta love the union).

The cross-country phase is really unique to ATP and is another reason the airlines respect their grads. The airlines know how they do things and know not only have you been trained, but got a little "seasoning" as well. Flying in the clouds IS different than flying with a hood on.

ExpressJet doesn't have a sim check or any flight check, it's all office. They actually have 3 rooms: 1) Technical, where they'll grill you on whatever airplane you've been flying, 2) Navigation, they have a bunch of charts and approach plates (you'll learn what they are, no, they aren't plates) and will ask you to identify things on the charts, they use Mexico charts (no difference) just to mess with you, 3) HR, where they ask you all the standard "why do you want to work for ExpressJet?, what makes a good pilot?", etc.
My interview was pretty funny, I was sweating the tech and nav stuff, didn't really worry about the HR (I consider myself pretty personable). Well I aced the first 2 rooms and got WAYYYY TOOO COMFORTABLE in the last room. Really put my foot in my mouth (too long to detail, but I basically said I hated dealing with the public, not what an airline wants to hear), almost blew the whole thing, but it worked out in the end.

After you submit your stuff to the airline, ATP will contact their "people" over there and give you a thumbs up (plus you'll get a "letter of rec", if you deserve one). Not sure exactly who talks to who, but I gave my stuff to ATP and got a call in 2 weeks, not bad.
After that, it's all on you bro.

You wouldn't believe how many ATP alumni are at ExpressJet. I actually trained at the same time as Continental Chris (who was hired at ExpressJet the same day as me and Corporate Dan, along with 4 other ATP guys). I'm flying with my instructor Tony next week, 2 of my students are here, last month every trip I flew was with ATP guys. My actual training partner from ATP is a Capt at Pinnacle. Honestly though not everyone makes it to an airline. One guy I trained with really didn't like intructing and is an ATC controller now. Another decided not to instruct with ATP, kinda got sidelined, and really doesn't fly anymore. I know one other, really bad attitude, everything was his instructor's fault, barely got through, from what I heard is still waiting for an airline to come knock on his door. Bottom-line, if you want it, it's there but it won't be handed to you.

Advice, definitely, ASK EVERYONE EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW! You'll be investing alot of time and money into this. You should be very confident and comfortable with whatever decision and school you go with. Karl, I really don't want to sound like a salesman, but if any school is looking better to you than ATP, let me (or someone at ATP) know and let's talk about it. I don't get a commission on any of this, I just know alot of guys who wished they went to ATP. They still got to the airlines and in the end that's what matters, but they spent alot more time and cash they they needed to. ATP is definitely not the only route, it just really is the most efficient.

Now quit bugging me and go fly damn it!

Good Luck,

Adam

[KarlN-TX-1208]

Hi Adam,

I'm just getting warmed up with the questions..... You may as well ask ATP for a bonus, just to get through them, ha.

Did you complete your RJ transition at ATP or do that through the EJ training?

I'll have about 30 days before my school starts and I'm gobbling up all the pilot magazines I can. Is there some additional course/reading material that I can get a jump on class with?

You mentioned that you were a Capt. and now you are a senior First Officer. What was your reasoning? Better schedules?

How long did it take to you to get to Capt?

Does ATP put a max on the hours you can CFI, in the event of a slow hiring period from the regionals?

Thanks again,


Karl

[ExpressJet Adam]

YOU tell ATP I need a bonus! (lol, don't worry, they show me lots of love)

I did the RJ Transition with ATP (there is no "transition" with Xjt, it's intial training) and boy was I glad I did (another really good thing ATP offers). The RJ program is really Flying Jets 101. Not a requirement but I honestly would have been lost if I hadn't taken it. Do you know what "bleeds and packs" are? what a "flow" really is? about "turbine lag"? Well I didn't. But after completed the RJ Trans I had some really good basic knowledge. Again, not required but a VERY good idea.

Yes, I suggest you read and study ANYTHING BUT aviation stuff. Enjoy the family, go bullriding, line dancing, hunting monster pigs or whatever else you Texas boys do for fun (lol, sorry, that's for my IAH friends). Thing is you'll be eating, sleeping and breathing airplanes for the next half a year, so just relax. After that, we own you.

Yes Karl, I WAS a Capt. There was no reasoning behind it (at least not on my part). The formal term is Downgrade. In difficult financial times (such as the airlines are experiencing these days) it is sometimes necessary to "temporarily" re-examine staffing levels. Last Oct. at ExpressJet 300+ FO's were fuloughed and about 150 Capt were downgraded including yours truly. Basically everyone slides back. New FO's get fuloughed, senior FO's become junior FO's, junior Capt's become senior FO's, etc. Not the end of the world, but definitely not my choice. On a positive note next month I'll be flying Charter for ExpressJet (we have a Charter division, pretty neat, we do college sports teams, Nascar, we flew Hillary, some bands, Caribbean shuttles, etc). Means a nice pay increase and some very interesting flying (I'm excited and wouldn't have done it if I hadn't been downgraded, so everything happens for a reason).

When I got hired at ExpressJet they told us 4yrs for upgrade, I did it in 2.5 (but again, I downgraded in Oct). That's the industry, it goes in waves. I know guys who have upgraded in 6 mos, and some who took 6 yrs. There are many factors that will effect it (usually economic). Just remember there are no guarantees AND everything turns around.

ATP puts no limit on CFI hours, students will get divied up amongst the instructors. Busier locations (Jax, Hou, Atl) will have more instructors than less busy ones. Most guys average about 75 hrs a month, but again, it can vary. I know guys who've had 125hr months and some have had 40.

Cool?

Adam