Introduction

[PeterS-PA-109]

Hello Matt!
I just called the AllATPs number and they set me up with you as an airline pilot coach. A little about myself: I am 23 years old, and going to finish college this spring with a Bachelors in History. I was born and raised in Canada, but I am a dual citizen as my parents are American and moved to Nova Scotia before I was born. My brother flies C-130's for the U.S. Air Force in Pittsburgh, and that is where I got my private pilots license 2 summers ago. I trained on a 172, but do most of my flying now on my Dad's Piper Archer. I also have both a Canadian and American Private Pilots license with about 85 total hours. I am strongly considering a career in aviation and my brother (who I get most of my flying advice from) told me that AllATPs was one of the industry leaders. I have a plethora of questions to ask, but I will start with the few on the top of my head right now:

If I chose to go to AllATPs, would you recommend a specific site? At this point I have no predisposition towards any of the locations, as I won't have any family nearby or any other reason to go or not go to any specific location.

Also, I have been told even the most junior co-pilot flying for any regional airline gets free (except taxes) travel on any airline pretty much anywhere in the world. This sounds to me WAY too good to be true, but if it isn't true, what are some of the industry perks?

Final question for now, sometimes I have trouble staying organized and I am wondering if the 90 day program is structured enough to help keep me on track. Will people be available to tell me what I need to do/study/practice? I tend to thrive betterwhen I am in a structured learning environment.

Thanks a lot for your help!!

[ASA Matt]

Hey Peter,

Welcome to the forums and thanks for the post! Sounds like you've had a good bit of exposure to flying early on in your life. And whaddayaknow, 85 hours is just what you'll need to start ATP's career pilot program! Sounds like you've done your research so let me try and answer your questions.

I've written about my experience at both ATP's Atlanta location and Jacksonville location in other posts (check out JeremyC and TylerH's posts) in my forums so you may want to read those as well in case I leave something out. As you indicated, you really have your choice of any location in the country so let me give you the scoop on a handful that I know a little bit about.

ATL (LZU-Lawrenceville) is the new Atlanta location located northeast of the city in Gwinnett County. It has really become ATP's premier location as far as facilities are concerned. Check out the website for pics. There's a multilevel admin building with sleeping rooms, classrooms, and hangar space as well a fuel facilities. I did a lot of my training in Atlanta (and continue to fly out of ATL, of course) and loved it. While I was west of the city at FTY-Fulton County, the crew is the same and the airspace is, well, Atlanta airspace! Keeping that in mind as well as the suitable climate in the southeast, Atlanta really is a great location all around. Locations that are similar would be Dallas, Phoenix, and Jacksonville. JAX is where ATP's headquarters is so you're around a lot of management usually. They are all maintenance bases as well which can come in handy.

As far as structure is concerned, ATP is a Part 61 school which means a lot of the book work is up to you. I've described this as well in previous posts. If you really rely on structure to succeed, a Part 61 school may be a bit of a challenge. I always thought, however, that I relied on structure to do well too, but you'll be amazed at how much more disciplined you are when you're after something you really want. You'll have an instructor telling you what you need to know, but he's not gonna spoon feed it to you. There won't be formal tests and "homework checks." Bottom line is you can't get all those ratings in 90 days at that price without doing a lot of work. Take that into consideration.

As for the travel benefits you speak of...your source was kinda right. Every airline employee (from ramp agents to pilots) gets "travel benefits" on their airline (for us, that's Delta). These "benefits" differ from airline to airline, however, but they generally work like this:

For a (relatively) small annual fee, you are able travel to any destination your airline serves, space available. This means, only if there's open seats. If there are, you list in order of seniority meaning even the grandson of a gate agent who was hired a day before you will get on before you. If you plan accordingly (check the availability before hand) it's usually not an issue. A lot of pilots use these benefits to "commute" to and from work. They'll fly into Atlanta the day their trip starts and fly home the day they get done. At ASA, all domestic Delta flights are free for us, our parents, spouses, and children. International flights include the taxes you speak of. You can add a "travel companion" to your benefits which allows a person of your choice (boyfriend/girlfriend usually) to travel for the price of a "yield fare" (around $50 each way domestically). We also get six (6) "buddy passes" which can be assigned to anyone for the price of a yield fare. I give these to my friends typically. My sister-in-law managed to make it all the way from Savannah, GA to Hawaii and back on a buddy pass. Cost her right around $200 vs over $1000 normal fare.

Overall, an awesome perk. My wife and I like to take day trips to DC, New York, etc. We flew up to DC, took the subway to the mall, went to the National Air and Space Museum, ate lunch and flew back to Atlanta all for under $25!

Keep me posted with your progress, wherever you end up! Thanks for the post!

>Matt

[PeterS-PA-109]

Thanks for all the info Matt!

A couple of more questions. I am still not entirely clear about the flying perks though. From my understanding, someone's relatives get free flying on the airline which they are employed with, correct? But say someone was a FO on a Continental Express RJ, would their parents get free travel on all Continental flights, including long haul flights, say Dallas to Tokyo, or something of equivalent distance? (not including taxes of course)

Also, I have been told that many pilots have to commute to their work place (Say Captain Smith lives in Chicago, but hops on a flight to New York to work every couple of weeks). But what if the airline you work for doesn't fly into the airport where you actually live? So, what I am asking is could a pilot from say Pinnacle go to the airport and simply show some kind of pass and hop on a United, or Delta Flight from LA to NY with limited complications? I assume I would be living somewhere in the United States for the foreseeable future and I was wondering if, being a pilot, I could go home by myself on a whim regardless of what airline (airilnes) I had to fly on to get there.

One more question: If I was planning on attending AllATPs this fall, probably in Jacksonville, what steps do I need to take to get the ball rolling? How soon do I need to start filling out the paperwork, and what else should I be thinking about at this time.

[ASA Matt]

Peter,

Good to hear from you again!

Your immediate family (parents, spouse, and children) can fly for free on any flight operated by your airline and its affiliates. ASA, for example, operates for Delta, so my parents, wife, and (eventually) children can all fly for free on any Delta flight (Delta and Delta Connection [ASA, SkyWest, Pinnacle, Shuttle America, Comair, etc.]). This includes international (includes taxes). If Delta flies there, it's free. Same applies for ExpressJet (Continental Express) pilots with Continental, PSA with US Airways, American Eagle with American, etc.

One of the other advantages we have as airline pilots is the ability to "jumpseat" on other airlines. This is a totally separate deal from the pass privileges discussed earlier. Most if not all of the domestic airlines participate in the CASS (Cockpit Access Security System) program. This allows pilots who are employed by others CASS participating airlines to occupy the "cockpit jumpseat" on other airlines. If there are seats available in the cabin, then you'll be given a seat. Otherwise you can sit the cockpit. This is how a Pinnacle pilot (who can travel on any Northwest or Delta flight with their pass privileges) can hitch a ride on another airline to get to work.

If you've decided on ATP, it's quite simple to get started. Call 1-800-ALL-ATPS and they'll lead you through the steps. The ACPP is clearly your best bet. JAX is a great location. Financing is probably the next step. Once you commit to a program and location and get started with the financing you'll receive your study materials. Talk to me again then.

Keep me posted!

>Matt

[PeterS-PA-109]

Hi again, Matt!

Ok, well I am 90% or more sure on ATP seeing as I hear pretty much all good things about your program and that the school is an industry leader, and I guess Jacksonville is as good a place as any seeing as I have no inclination to go anywhere specific. Just a couple of more questions as of now:

1) What can you tell me about the housing arrangements at AllATPs for the 90 day fast track program?

2) Theoretically, how quickly can I start if I wanted to sign up today? More specifically, my schedule is looking like this: School ends in late April, then I have summer school until the end of June and I will have my diploma. I was wondering, if I so choose, if I could start say, early July or if there are specific starting dates for new recruits (like one big new class at the start of September, start of January, etc.) I really just want to make sure that if I wanted to start in early July, which is a real possibility, that I don't miss the boat by musing over my decision for a couple of weeks.

3) Upon completion of the fast track program will there be a guaranteed instructor job for AllATPs awaiting somewhere in the US? If so, could it theoretically be at any of the flight schools. It wouldn't be a problem at all, but could I do my schooling in Jacksonville, and then move to say, Phoenix to do instructing for 6 months because that is where they needed instructors at that time? Also, are there any other kind of jobs available if I couldn't/didn't want to fly as an instructor when I finish up the 90 day fast track?

Thanks for all your time! You have been a huge help so far!

[ASA Matt]

Peter,

Good to hear that you're moving forward on everything!

One of the great things about ATP's ACPP (90-day program) is the included housing--saves you big time!

Upon arrival in JAX, you'll be provided with shared occupancy apartments with close proximity to the airport (KCRG). I know the complex has changed since I was down there (for the better, I've heard). The apartments are usually two or three bedrooms. Depending on the number of students enrolled, you may share a bedroom with another student or you may end up in a room by yourself. All the apartments are fully furnished with everything you need to live (modestly, mind you) for the 90-days you're down there--beds, tv, pots, pans, etc. All you'll need to provide is your own bed linens, towels, and food, of course. I showed up with everything I needed in a laundry basket (I travel light!).

At first I was a little unsure about sharing a room/apartment, but believe me, it was great. Some of my best friends to this day are guys I lived with throughout my time at ATP (one was a groomsman at my wedding, another is my wife!). You're all going through the same thing so it's great to have someone there to study with, share your experiences with, and get advice from (some will be ahead of you in the program). It's just like a continuation of college life, essentially. I loved it!

If you've decided on JAX, you can start really whenever you want. It's going to depend on financing. If you have to get a loan, get started on that as soon as you can. With the economy the way it is, banks are being pretty stingy these days. I graduated college the end of May 2005 and started at ATP the first week of June. I signed up for the program the preceeding January so there was plenty of availability. With enrollment down because of the economy, you really shouldn't have any problem starting as soon as you're ready. You will want to give yourself a few weeks, however, after you graduate to look through the materials that will be sent to you and to take your written test. I highly recommend that you get that out of the way before you start. Any questions about enrollment, feel free to call the guys in the office via the 800-ALL-ATPS number. They can give you the most up-to-date info.

All students who complete the ACPP and that are in good standing (passed all checkrides, finished on-time, good reputation) will be offered employment by ATP on an as-needed basis. Training is a little slow these days so the demand for instructors is not as high as it was say two years ago. You may end up waiting a few months before you can start or it may be just a couple weeks. There are over two dozen ATP locations so, if you're flexible, you'll find yourself somewhere. These days you can pretty much work wherever you want. Keep in mind, however, if you ask to be sent to a location that is already over-staffed, you won't build time as quickly as if you go to another location that is more appropriately staffed. Back when I was there, we didn't really have a choice--they sent us where we were needed. These days, you can go wherever you please keeping in mind what I just mentioned.

Like I've told guys before, my opinion is that instructing is the most valuable way to build time for the airlines. At ATP, it usually is the quickest way too. There are, of course, always other opportunities out there. This industry is all about connections. You may be in the right place at the right time and be offered a job flying right seat in a King Air out of Pensacola, FL, or flying checks in a C210 out of Knoxville, TN. Plenty of opportunities out there. Do what you're comfortable with. Don't worry about that until you're getting towards the end of your training.

Hope this helps! Keep the questions coming and, as always, keep me posted!

>Matt

[PeterS-PA-109]

Hey Matt! Thanks again for the info. Money isn't too much issue because I am lucky enough to have my parents give me the money as a kind of "get out of the nest" present, so financing should be relatively simple. Sorry for pestering you with all these questions; more and more of them just keep on popping up in my head! A couple of more for you:

1) I have about 80 total hours in my logbook as of right now, and I will do some flying this spring and will certainly have 85 total hours quickly, but I was just wondering how much of those needed to be cross country. Whatever flying I need to do I will certainly get done before I go, and I just want to make sure I know exactly how much that is.

2) What would a typical day/week be like at AllATPs? Would there be classroom work too? Do I do some of my cross-country Seminole flying with a partner alternating PIC time in order to limit individual costs? Someone might have already answered these questions in a different forum but I haven't been able to find it.

3) You talked about a test which I take before going to AllATPs in your previous post. What kind of test is this? Will it be in some kind of package that AllATPs sends me?

Thanks for being so patient with me. It's just this whole thing is a pretty big decision which I am trying my best to make with due circumspect.

[ASA Matt]

Peter,

Keep the questions coming, that's what I'm here for!

You need 85 hrs total time to start the ACPP. You also need 25 hrs cross-country PIC time (used toward meeting the time requirements for your instrument and commercial). You should have at least five hours x/c PIC already since that's what's required to get your Private.

A typical week during the ACPP is pretty busy. You can expect to be at the airport every day either flying, receiving ground instruction, studying, or taking written tests. It really depends on what stage of the program you're in. I broke it down a little bit in Tyler's forum within my forum. Remember, ATP's program relies a lot on the discipline of the student. Even though your instructor may be flying with another student, that doesn't mean you'll have time to take it easy. You'll be taking five more written tests, so there'll always be something to study for. While the written tests are mostly a self-study thing, you may find it helpful to study with your flight partner for the other stuff.

During the x/c portion of the program you'll be doing all your flying with a partner. While you'll alternate legs much like at the airlines, you'll both be able to log PIC time for every leg. It's some kind of loop hole within the FARs that has to do with simulated instrument and safety pilots.

The test I was referring to was the private written--I had forgotten that you already had your private pilot certificate. It would still be advantageous to get some of the other written tests out of the way before you start. Trust me, the less of those you have to deal with throughout the program the better. Take the instrument (IRA) and the commercial (CAX) written tests. They're the most tedious. You can take them at any CATS or Lasergrade testing facility. The study materials are included in you ATP books that you'll receive as soon as you sign up.

>Matt

[PeterS-PA-109]

Ok so I have talked to my parents, called the phone number for AllATPS and spoke to James about enrolling at the Jacksonville facility in mid July of this year. So barring any unforeseen act of God, I should be a student with you guys this summer.

Some more pertinent questions:

1. I am going to need around 15 hours of cross country PIC time in order to fulfill my requirement before I enroll. James told me that it would be advantageous for a number of reasons to go a week before I start formal training and get those hours done at the Jacksonville facility as opposed to up here in Canada on my dads archer or a rented plane at the local FBO. He said it was a flat rate of 100 dollars an hour which seems very reasonable especially considering I could live there the extra time for free. No specific questions, but can you elaborate on this idea? Do you foresee any possible complications?

2. I have been thinking about this one for awhile: while I don't want to cast aspersions on the quality of the training I received when I got my private pilot license, I don't think it was as professional as it would be at a school like AllATPs. I may be lacking in some areas, especially considering I haven't flown anything other than casual sightseeing, or short hops between uncontrolled airports since my private check ride. What should I do to brush up on my PPL knowledge? Should I pretend that I am preparing for a check ride/oral exam/written exam all over again? Essentially, what should I know for the interview and what will it be like?

3. I am probably going to be here in Canada until a week before I go to Jacksonville to start training and was wondering if this would be a suitable schedule of events: Leave Nova Scotia on July 3-4th and get to Jacksonville on the 8th-9th. Do an interview on the 10th. Start doing the single engine PIC from the 11th to the 15th with an instructor to re-familiarize myself with intensive flying, and then start the program on the 16th. Would this be acceptable? Do they want me to come down and do the interview weeks, or months before I start the program?

My main concern at this time is preparing for the interview because I am not 100% sure what I am expected to know before I begin my training, and want to be fully prepared.

Thanks again for all the help!

[ASA Matt]

Peter,

Good work! I figured James would get you set up!

1. Naturally, ATP would love to let you pay them for any flying you want to do. This may not be a bad idea, though. I haven't rented a plane in a while, but $100/hr does seem pretty reasonable. And yes, you would be able to live down there, get to know the airport, the instructors, the students, the climate! It's really up to you. If it's about money (totally valid reason), you may be able to do it cheaper up there. It may be advantageous, however, for you to be down there where the guys could help you use those 15 hrs in the best way possible. Shooting approaches around JAX, getting to know the airspace, etc.

2. ATP's training is going to be very intense from day one. You'll be flying the maneuvers on your very first flight. My advice to you, regardless of where you build your last bit of time, is to make the best of those hours. Go through all the PPL maneuvers again from turns around a point to short field landings. Fly under the hood a little bit to get used to instruments. In other words, minimize the amount of time you're just flying straight and level. Now I realize 15 hrs is a good bit of time so you will be spending a portion of that just buzzing around. You know what I mean.

3. Don't be intimidates by the "interview." It's merely a way for ATP to get to know you and the give you a tour of the facility. In other words, your future at ATP is in no way resting upon the outcome of this "interview." As far as when to get down there, talk to James. You can do the interview whenever. Just ask them what kind of time you'll need and they'll help you decide when the best time to get down there is. This isn't the military, remember!

You should focus on the following: deciding where you want to build your last few hours. Getting into your box-o-books as soon as it arrives. Taking as many written tests as possible before you start.

You may want to head down to JAX early just to take the written tests. You can use their test prep programs as well.

Keep asking questions! Good work!

>Matt