Introduction

[ZacB-OH-509]

Hi my name is Zac and I am a 23 year old recent college graduate living in Columbus, OH. I studied communication in college and worked in the financial services industry directly upon graduating. I have always had an obsession with flying, one of those kids that is constantly watching planes fly from the ground and dreaming of flying one. Or taking dates to watch planes land at my hometown airport. I have never flown before, I did an intro flight at a local airport on my 13th birthday, but am very interested in becoming a professional pilot. I became interested in the pilot profession because my dad recently began dating a flight attendant for Continental Airlines. She could not be happier and loves the lifestyle the airlines give her. My goal in all of this is to find out what being a professional pilot is all about and to learn to fly. I can't imagine a more fun and rewarding career.

I have looked at numerous flight schools, both locally and nationwide and all of my search efforts seem to direct me back to ATP. What advice would you have for an aspiring pilot? And what would you say is the best part about your job?

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to run this forum. Thanks again!!

[American Eagle Melvin]

Hey Zac,

Nice to meet you and thanks for signing on. Congrats to you on your college degree. That takes a lot of commitment and you made it through...way to go!!! I have always had an obsession for flying too. I was always looking up into the sky and could identify any plane by looking at the bottom of the plane. So you took dates to go see planes? Cool. The only person I took to see planes was my girlfriend...who is now my Wife. The first gift she ever bought me was a book about becoming a professional pilot. She knew how much I wanted to become a pilot and has supported me 100%. Even though she may not have wanted to stare at planes for a couple hours, she did it anyway....

For an aspiring pilot like yourself, I would say to (1) keep researching to make sure that ATP or any other flight school is the right choice for you. (2) Stay positive because there is a lot of negative talk out there about the industry. I get that alot from some of the older pilots that I fly with who have been in the industry FOREVER. But stay encouraged and don't let that talk get you down if/when you hear it. I've done other jobs and nothing compares to getting to fly a plane around for a living.... My thing is, if you don't like being a pilot, then find a new job. (3) Keep learning. You will never reach a point where you know everything. I am still learning and will continue to learn throughout my career.

The best part about flying to me, aside from being able to fly around all day/night, is being able to take passengers around for work, vacation, family reunions, funerals, meetings, etc. They all step onto the plane and are counting on the crew to get them there safely. That is a lot of responsibility, but it is also Self-Rewarding knowing that I did my job for them know what I mean. Passengers know nothing about me, but trust the fact that I am well trained and qualified to take them from Point A to Point B. It is a good feeling, especially when they are getting off of the plane and they give you a "Thank you" or "Great Landing". I live in LA and I am based in NY and although commuting to work is long and tiring, I am still having a good time flying Zac.

Well that is everything in a nutshell. Again it is a pleasure to meet you. Feel free to start another thread with any questions or comments you might have for me. Talk to you soon.

[ZacB-OH-509]

Melvin,

Thanks for the response, it is really cool that you all take time out of your schedules to answer questions from aspiring pilots! I really appreciate your advice and have continued my search and options regarding flights schools.

In regards to the training, I have been advised it is best to go straight through and get done as fast as possible. Unfortunately I just graduated from college and have student loans and debt from that, that will not dissapear if I go to flight school. If I go at my own pace, what is the structure of the program and how fast could I get it done? My thought is to work a part time on the side while attending ATP just to pay the bills. Any thoughts on that?

Also I am a little concerned about the amount of money it costs to do all of this. In your opinion is it more of an investment in yourself than a cost? And also given current pay rates for pilots how long would take to repay all of the loans?

Again I really appreciate any advice you would have and if you have any answers to those questions. Just trying to work out all the details before I make the definite decision to do this. Still haven't lost the dream! Talk to you soon

[American Eagle Melvin]

Hey Zac,

No Problem Bud. Glad to be able to help.

The type of program you choose (Fast Track or Self-paced) really depends on your learning style and the amount of time you have. Do you learn fast, do you work well under pressure, do you like to take your time and disgest information slowly, are you available every day. Those are a few things to consider. Now in my humble opinion, I personally thought it was best for me to go straight through the 60-day and 90-day fast track style program because I stopped working and needed to complete the program quickly so I could start making money again.... In addition, the faster you are done, the sooner you can get a CFI job if that is what you want to do, the sooner you can build flight hours, the sooner you can apply for an airline job, and the sooner you can start building seniority at an airline. When you hear "Seniority is Everything"...it is really the truth. Those people that start flying before you and finish the program before you will be one step ahead of you in the industry...or even quite a few steps ahead...

I understand the debt that you have. I had over $50,000 in school loans plus a huge house mortgage and then I took out a loan for flight training. It would have been nice for me to work part time but I wanted to blast through flight training, plus my wife was working and I had a few dollars tucked away so that supported us while I went to ATP. You will have to decide what is best for you.

If you decide on the Self-paced program, basically you will post your availability and a schedule will be built around that for you. The self-paced program is set out for a Max of 10-months for the Airline Career Pilot Program, but depending on your availability, you can finish way before that. It all depends on how many days a week/month you can commit to flying.

Flight training is not cheap no matter where you learn to fly. I chose ATP because I heard over and over again that the price you see is the Final price you pay. Everything but my checkrides was included. All my books included, housing was included for the fast-track program if I needed it, all of my flight manuals were included, all of the written exams were included, hotels and housing included during the cross country phase, all of the airline hiring agreements included, a sufficient amount of multi-engine time included, and I could get all of my ratings including my flight instructor certificates with all of that...all at a Fixed Price. It was perfect for me and my situation. Flight training comes at a cost, but it is indeed an investment in your future. You can choose a flight school that may be a little less expensive on paper, and then when you sign up you find out that there are tons of hidden fees and they only quote you for the minimum amount of hours it takes to qualify for a rating, but you end up needing more time and then they charge you more money. That is why research is crucial. Can't always trust what you see. You have to get testimonials from people that have actually gone to a specific flight school. I am not an ATP salesman. I will never say ATP is the ONLY WAY. There are plenty of other routes to get to your goal. You just have to make sure you make an informed decision.

Keep your eye on the prize. Make dreams reality. Talk at you later.

[ZacB-OH-509]

Thanks for the feedback! You are absolutely right about the fixed cost of ATP, I looked into some local training options and they were cheaper but when I called they told me about all the money it would cost additionally.

I completely understand what your saying about just going straight through training and getting a CFI job. MY concern is just getting through the training on what I have saved up. If I worked a part time job and lets say devoted 30-35 hours a week to flying, how fast do you think I could get through? I want to get through as fast as possible and would be willing to put in long weeks to do so. Also if I go self-paced is housing still included? I have a place to stay in Houston so I could go there if housing is only available for the fast track program. And also is the financing still structured the same for a self paced ciriculum?

Another concern/question I have that is totally unrelated is about my experience with aviation. I have never flown as you know and I have been reading up on information but still feel as if I would be clueless upon arrival, Does ATP do a pretty good job of catching people without much or any experience up on aviation in general? There is a lot of lingo and details that I don't have down and don't want to be left in the dark when I show up for class. I know the program says it is designed for people with no experience but I was just curious how they bring students up to speed. Thanks Melvin!

[American Eagle Melvin]

Zac,

Budgeting is something you will get used to quick...trust me. I found that the best way for me to save a few penny's was to stop eating out and bring my own lunch along with me. This is not only good for the wallet, but good for the heart. So with the money that you have saved up, you will have to find creative ways to make it last. Out of pocket I had to spend money on a headset, kneeboard (straps around your knee and holds your charts, checklists, etc), amy other random supplies that I wanted but really did not need, and pay for my checkrides. The examiner in my area charged $500 per checkride and $250 if you had to do a re-check. Throughout the program you will take 8 checkrides, which for me would have been $4000. HOWEVER...my initial multi engine flight instructor checkride was with the FAA so it was Free, and my single engine flight instructor and commercial single engine checkride was combined into one so it was half the price. So I ended up saving $1500. Works for me. I purchased the Bose Headset that set me back $995. My knee board was only $20. I am not in a position to tell you that you need XXX amount of money saved up in order to survive, but this is about what I spent out of pocket aside from food. So if you take what you have or add a little more to it with your job and spend wisely, you should be fine. But again, you know your financial situation better than me.

If you started training and you could dedicate 30-35 hours per week and everything were to go as planned (meaning you studied hard, weather was good, examiners are readily available, etc) you could easily finish close to a fast track pace. But again that is if everything goes as planned. You will also have to be able to take time off from work to be able to do your cross country flying and CFI school but if any holiday comes up and your job will not allow you to take consecutive days off because of the holiday, that can prolong your training. The beauty of the self-paced program is that you have the ability to take a break if needed. So if you need a week off for personal reasons, then its no biggy because technically you have 10-months to finish. Same goes for the self-paced private pilot program. But if you hit it hard and can dedicate that amount of time, you'd be straight. Housing is not included in the self-paced programs, but it is already fixed into the price whether you use it or not. So if you have your own housing in Houston, that will work in your favor if you chose the self paced programs. The financing is also structured the same in both programs.

I see that I missed one of your questions in your previous post about how long would it take to repay the loan. That depends on the terms of your loan. I am signed up with a not so good interest rate on a 20-year term. So the loan will be paid off in 20 years. If I can afford to pay more per month, I will be done paying sooner. I am going to look into refinancing the loan for a better interest rate so that I pay less over time. Since I went with Sallie Mae, I was able to defer payments on the loan for 18 months so the interest was still stacking during that time, but at least I did not have to pay while I was in training.

The aviation lingo is pretty easy to grasp once you've been around it. Initially your instructor will handle the radios and you can listen in to hear what to say and what is said back to you. My instructor carried a hand held radio and it would be on all the time so when we were doing ground lessons I could hear what was going on around the airport. You will get in the simulator and practice flying and talking as if you were doing the real thing. After you catch on, then you will be live on the radio. I was a little nervous when it was my time to shine live on the radios because I did not want to say the wrong thing, I did not want to take up too much time talking when others are waiting to transmit, I did not want to stutter. And guess what....?....I did ALL of that. But I was a student pilot and that is what student pilots do. But practice makes perfect and I am still not perfect...hahaha. But I've come a long way since Day 1 and you will do the same. I do not come from an aviation background. No one in my family is a pilot, flight attendant, instructor. So it was all brand new to me too. Zero experience to airline pilot my friend. It is just like any job or any subject in school. I solidified my knowledge of the alphabet in kindergarden because I heard the ABC's over and over again. Same applies to learning the aviation lingo. Many a people walk into ATP who are college graduates, making a career change, or fresh out of the military and they are just as clueless about aviation as the next person. It may get frustrating at times, but by working hard and submerging yourself in aviation, it all works itself out.

Does this help answer your questions?

Oh and I just had an overnight in Columbus KCMH last night. Flew outta there this morning. Maybe next time I'm there we can meet up.

[ZacB-OH-509]

Yes all of that information is very helpful to me! I feel really close to being able to start flying!! I was watching that video with Kit Darby about the airline industry and was wondering what your opinion of it all is? I have talked to a few other pilots that I know through family, and they all seem to say the best time to train is during a downturn. I can buy that, but am concerned with all the negatives out there right now about the industry. I know in your first post to me you said to not let it effect me, but its hard when you see it everyday!

Lets say I start training in September of this year, and for fun lets say I do the fast track and work as a CFI for ATP. Would I be right in guessing it would take about a year to be qualified for a regional or corporate job? And if that is about right or even remotely close, in your opinion where do you think the industry will be at that time? I know you can't see the future but since your in the industry, I hoped you may have some insights!

How did you like the Columbus? Haha that is so cool! Hit me up if/when you come back. Talk soon!

[American Eagle Melvin]

Hey Zac,

It is tough to stay positive amidst all of the negativity. I completely understand. Kit Darby makes many good points. I personally think that hiring will begin again within the next year...year and a half. Rumor around Eagle was that we were supposed to start hiring in Feb/Mar of this year and here we are in June and there are no new hires on the property. Before airlines bring new hires onto the property, they will first have to call back all of their furloughed pilots, get them back into training and flying (which could take a few months or more depending on how many pilots are on furlough), then new hire classes can begin. I was talking with a captain who said that the airline industry will be in great need of pilots by 2012, which is when most of the pilots who were able to fly up to age 65 will be Forced into Retirement. I can agree with that too. But I do think that another big hiring spree will happen within 1 to 1 and a half years. Just my thoughts.

And I also agree that the best time to do your flight training is in a downturn. That way when things pick back up you are ready to go. The door to the airlines opens and closes fast based on what I've heard and personally experienced. It could take about a year for you to be qualified for a regional airline, and at the same time it could be less than that. When the next hiring spree starts back up, I can only assume that the minimum amount of hours needed to apply for an airline job will be significantly higher than the minimums when I got hired. This is because there are so many pilots on the streets that are looking for a job. What separates each of these pilots from the next is the amount of flying time they have, the amount of multi-engine time they have, the amount of turbine time they have, their previous experience in an airline or coporate environment, etc. I was fortunate enough to get hired right outta the ACPP, but that may be a little difficult now-a-days. But I think that those days will be back soon enough. This is why I think that the Gulfstream Program is good because it allows students to gain more experience and have more on their resume so they stand out on paper.

But again, my thoughts about the future of the industry are all coming from my optimistic side. You never know what the future holds and how long it will take for the economy to heal itself. It is hard to know how many airlines will survive these tough times. I do know that there will Always be a need for air travel no matter what. I am just hoping that things pick up for the better within the next couple years. Any other thoughts?

My Columbus overnight was cool. Hung out with my crew in the hotel and watched the Magic/Laker game in our crew room and ate dinner. Good times when you have a crew that likes to hang out. I don't come back to Columbus this month but may be back there next month. I will let you know. I will post my July schedule on the Forum towards the end of the month. Let me know what else is on your mind. Catch you later Zac.

[ZacB-OH-509]

When you wrote that response I was reading all about you flying your dad for the first time! How cool! I can't tell you how fired up I am about flying!! I am glad you enjoyed Columbus. It isn't the most impressive place in the country but it gets the job done.

I am taking the necessary steps to get the ball rolling on ATP. I have been in close contact with my family and friends down in Houston and think the move is going to happen soon. I have another question for you. Columbus is where NetJets is based and I think it would be a blast to fly with them. Whats your opinion on flying for those private companies or flying corporate? Are the prereqs about the same? Given our conversation I think that regionals would be awesome too, but in listening to Kit talk about the industry it seems like the "private" sector of aviation may be hiring/have less turnover than major airlines. Any thoughts?

[American Eagle Melvin]

What's up Zac,

You know...flying my dad was a big accomplishment man. Really! He knows how much flying means to me, ever since I was a little kid. I am going to try to pick up that flight that he takes to Fresno every year just so I can say I flew him again and again. He's still not bold enough to go up with me in a small plane though....

Flying corportate is alot about who you know, rather than what you know. If you know someone on the inside that works/flies for a particular corporate airline and they can provide you with a good recommendation and walk your resume right up to the hiring manager, then chances are you are golden if they are hiring. As far as stability, tough for me to say. Really depends on the company. I was just talking to a guy from Flex Jet that flies the Learjet-45 and he just told me that his company let go 80 pilots. It is possible that the private sector has less turnover, but you gotta get in first, and then if they decide to let people go, gotta hope you have seniority there ya know.

But if you get in, I hear the quality of life is great. I know that the earning potential in the beginning is greater than the regionals. My instructor flies corporate and started out making $50,000 her first year.... That's just about double what I made my first year. That's pretty good. The guy from Flex Jet said his company pays his airline tickets to commute to/from work, and he gets to keep the miles and points when he travels on other airlines as well. The airlines carry more pilots and workers so when its time to let people go, it is a pretty large number. Corporate airlines usually have less planes and less pilots so if they decide to get rid of a plane and need to let go of pilots, its not as massive as it would be for an airline. Just my thoughts.